If you present reality in a certain way, then this is going to influence what you're going to do. The FBI used to say, "we merely present information, and it's the responsibility of the person to use it." But merely presenting information in a certain format has a powerful effect.

So if we say that people are all independent and in a different form, than we are going to behave accordingly. You see, information is not just sitting there. It is very powerful, and thought in general is very powerful. It has produced everything - farmland, industry, governments, religions, schools, technology and science, it has produced everything you see. It's almost impossible to find a part of the world that has not been influenced by thought.

The whole process of thought doesn't want to acknowledge this. Thought says, "we've got to grow." and thought says, "we've got to get rid of the consequences of growth.", which means, "we've got to grow without consequences."

[David Bohm: results you don't want]

"The shamans say that being a medicine man begins by falling into the power of the demons; The one who pulls out of the dark place becomes the medicine man, and the one who stays in it is the sick person; You can take every psychological illness as an initiation.

Even the worst things you fall into are an effort of initiation, for you are in something that belongs to you." [Joan Halifax]